Advice on hybrid cars?
October 30, 2009 in Buying & Selling
Did you know that you can save fuel and run your car on water
Blaisette asked:
We need a new car that gets superior gas mileage. I’m inclined to go hybrid, but my husband has several objections:
1. The hybrid cars have problems: they’re harder to maintain and depreciate faster.
2. There are non-hybrid cars that get almost as good gas mileage as hybrid cars.
He’s not interested in arguments about saving the ozone layer or stopping global warming…the pocket book (both on saving money at the pump and at the dealer) is the bottom line. Are there any suggestions on how I can get him to consider hybrids? Thanks.
Did you know that you can save fuel and run your car on water
get a gas only car…hybreds can only be worked on at dealer…and if u are keeping it…you will not like paying 5000 dollars to replace the old batterys
I wouldn’t be so quick to set my heart on one. Let’s take your husbands objections 1 at a time.
1. Hybrids have the same or better repair records as conventional cars, according to consumer reports. They actually depreciate slower…some 1 and 2 year old Priuses are selling at almost the cost of a new one due to heavy demand.
2. On this point your husband may be right. Hybrids do far better in the city than on the highway. If you drive at least half your miles on the highway I’d be very hard-pressed to justify the cost premium of a hybrid…the Chevy Aveo, Honda Fit, Nissan Versa and Toyota Yaris approach 40mpg highway. The Chevy Cobalt/Pontiac G5 gets 35 if you drove the speed limit (I had one as a rental for 2 weeks) as does the Corolla, Focus and Civic.
Bottom line-if much of your driving is stop-and-go, then get the hybrid. Otherwise you’ll save more than $5000 getting a small conventional car. Even at 3.00 a gallon, it’ll take years to make that difference up.
Hybrid vehicles are very new and have lots of problems. For example, as anyone who uses rechargable batteries knows the battery will slowly become worse, especially if you do a lot of city driving. The city driving cycling that gets energy when you brake also degrades the battery. Your MPG will degrade too. Another thing to consider is that if you do more highway driving than city driving you would be better off with a good conventional vehicle. Hybrids do not, yet, get very good highway fuel economy, unless the hybrid has an Atkinson style engine. Hybrids also have very wimpy performance, they are usually underpowered. You might want to wait a couple of years. Things are changing fast and we are coming out with many new technologies for both hybrid and conventional vehicle technologies. Hydraulic hybrids may come out soon. They are not wimpy like electric hybrids. They don’t use batteries, but use accumulators instead that do not degrade like chemical batteries.
Hi,
No discussion of the environmental impacts? No problem. Stay with me until the end and I’ll give you both the entire answer, ok? And I’ll total it up for you at the end.
Get something nice and caffeinated and get comfy…
We’ll use the Prius as the main example for this info because it is the most advanced and best selling full hybrid on the road. The Prius actually costs less to own and less to operate than a non-hybrid vehicle.
Prius are the beginning of the automotive world removing mechanical parts and replacing them with electronic parts on a large scale.
As far as the “higher cost for repairs” or “harder to maintain” thoughts go:
Electric motors do not have the moving parts and wear and tear of gasoline or diesel engines. They do not require the maintenance of internal combustion engines (ICE’s) and electric motors will outlast ICE’s by many years. There are electric motors that have run continuously for 50, 60 or more years. Check with an electrical engineer or a factory that uses electric motors.
So the cost to maintain over 100,000 miles is…
- There is no steering belt or steering pump, the system is electronic and uses electric motors. There is no belt to wear and no pump to lose fluid out of (ever hear a car squeal when it goes around a corner? that’s the belt or pump going bad) No cost there.
- There is no accelerator cable or cable linkage, once again, it is electronic. So there is no loss of acceleration over time from cable stretch and wear like on a standard vehicle. No cost there.
- The brake pads should never need to be replaced, they are hardly used due to the regenerative braking system. I just found another set of pictures on the net of a Prius with no appreciable wear on the brake pads. The wear was measured with calipers and the owner thought to take pictures of the pads when his Prius had 8,000 miles and at 105,000 miles. That’s 97,000 miles with no wear. No cost there.
- You never touch the nickel metal hydride (NiMH) battery or the hybrid system, it is self regulating. No cost there.
- The ICE is not tuned up for 100,000 miles. At 15,000 miles per year, that’s about seven years. And even then…
- four spark plugs run $12.00 each, four is $48.00 (the wires aren’t replaced and there are no distributors because each cylinder has a direct injection module and they are not replaced)
- coolant is $15.50 a gallon and you need two gallons, or $31.00 (if you live in an extremely hot or cold climate, you might need to change the coolant 2X in 100,000 miles so figure $62.00 there)
- air filters are $18.00 for the engine and $25.00 for the cabin
- inspect the wiring, change the oil (might as well, since you’re there) lube, inspect and flush the brake lines, flush the coolant if necessary. It runs about $225.00, which includes parts.
- the sealed, continuously variable transmission fluid is not changed until 90,000 miles, about $140.00
- The OEM (Original Equipment from the Manufacturer) Goodyear Integrity’s are about $113.00 each, installed. The originals are low-rolling resistance, specialty tires, just like a truck or sports car. They will last about 35,000 or so. Three sets of OEM tires- over 105,000 miles- will run $339.00 installed.
- Oil and filter changes every 3000 miles and tire rotations every 6000 miles, just like any other vehicle. oil changes are about $26.00 and tire rotations are about $18.00, or about $884.00 for oil changes and $306.00 for rotations over 100,000 miles
As far as the nickel metal hydride (NiMH) battery goes, the current record for a Prius is over 360,000 miles with the original NiMH battery and hybrid drive train. Prius are regularly used for taxis and government use (see New York and the state of Colorado).
There has never been a person who has paid to replace a NiMH battery in any Prius used under normal circumstances. There have been NiMH batteries replaced in Prius that have been in accidents and the occasional person will try to hack into the system and ruin the NiMH. But those are exceptions.
BTW, as far as the “$5000″ for a new NiMH battery goes, that is completely false. Call your local Toyota dealer and ask for the parts department. New NiMH batteries for either the first or the second generation Prius run $2985.13. I asked one day just to squash the goofy numbers that were being thrown around the net.
These are not typos and anything you may have seen to the contrary is an urban myth.
So, over 100,000 miles, for regular service, your Prius should run about $1973, rounded to $2000, or about .02 cents per mile.
Your gas should run you about $6,000 over 100,000 miles, or about .06 cents per mile (100,000 miles / 50 mpg (I get 51.7 mpg currently as an average, city and highway, auto temp w/air and stereo on) = 2000 gallons of gas X $3.00 a gallon = $6,000).
So your Prius will run you about $8000, or .08 cents per mile, to operate over 100,000 miles.
I used 100,000 miles because it is a easy, round number, and most people don’t keep their vehicles more than 6 or 7 years. The Prius will last much, much longer than 100,000, and it will perform better at that amount than most vehicles on the road with 100,000 or 150,000 miles.
Any vehicle you are considering should be put to this kind of scrutiny. A vehicle is a major investment and it will cost you money to run properly. Please print this info out and use it to compare any vehicles you are considering by calling the local dealership and asking the parts and service departments what is involved in maintenance over 100,000 miles.
All of my service and parts amounts come from a local Toyota dealership, and do not figure in any kind of promotions, coupons, or discounts. I called on 6/12/07. Please let me know if my math is off anywhere, and I’ll be glad to make corrections.
And that’s about it. No surprises and the maintenance is pretty simple.
Good luck with your new vehicle.
If you have any other questions, feel free to contact me at